Episode 10 - Geoffrey Warner, Alchemy
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Prefab Review
Hi, my name is Michael Frank, and this is the Prefab Pod presented by Prefab Review where we interview leading people and companies in the prefab housing industry. Today, we're speaking with Geoffrey Warner, the principal architect and owner of Alchemy. Welcome, Jeffrey.
Alchemy
Hey, Michael.
Prefab Review
So, very excited to have you here. Thanks for hanging in here with us during your time in quarantine and I'm excited to learn more about your company. First, though, I was hoping to learn a little bit more about you. How did you get into this business?
Alchemy
It depends on whether you're asking how I became an architect or how we got into the prefab sort of gig, if you will.
Prefab Review
Either one. It'd be great to hear the history.
Alchemy
So, in high school, I wanted to be an architect. I didn't exactly know why. So I went to architecture school and found out a lot of stuff about the art of architecture, which was really aligned with a lot of the things I learned as a kid. You know, going to the Walker Art Museum and appreciated as aesthetic process. The one thing you didn't learn about as much in college at the University of Minnesota was how to put things together. And so at the end of school there, started building furniture to learn how to put things together. And long story short, I was working in an office for a little while. Sort of decided that maybe quitting and starting out with something that's sort of more exploratory when I wasn't making any money anyway. You know, not working and learning how to build stuff yourself is probably a great way to do that. So that's what I ended up doing, is basically doing furniture design, working on bungalow renovations, small home renovations. Minneapolis and St. Paul are littered with these little story and a half bungalows. So those were kind of our first projects. And so this design-build is kind of how we got into both sort of learning how to put things together, I would say, and running a small nascent design office, which eventually became sort of a whole, full fledged architecture practice.
Prefab Review
And then did that, so did that start as Alchemy or did Alchemy come later?
Alchemy
Yeah. You know, I worked out of my bedroom almost like I'm doing today because of the virus outbreak. So, you know, by working on these small projects, you basically have a couple of guys who go out and build something. And so you're sort of doing it as a means to an end. But the directness of designing and building, you know, sort of short circuits a lot of the things. You don't have to deal with and say have a full architecture office, but it actually ends up in a weird way it teaches you really a lot about the more subtle aspects of designing and connecting that to actually getting things built. I also shared a furniture design office with a bunch of people, and so we had the ability to do metal work and just experiment with a lot of different materials.
Prefab Review
So did you start out doing kind of site built homes like people have been doing forever?
Alchemy
Yeah. You know, some of the first projects we did were small houses because that's what we were kind of, you know, exposed to. The Erato house was actually one of our first house design projects. It was really a practical solution to a problem which the owner had, you know, bought a piece of land for $130,000 and had $50,000 left over to, do, you know, a house or a cabin, a retreat. So, you know, that's not a lot of money even in 2001. So we said here's two solutions. The first one is we can give you a pole barn, which is this big-ass space with nothing in it. Or we can build you a little jewel box. And she says, tell me more about the little jewel box idea. I said, well, it's not very big and you don't have money for plumbing or actual electrical hookups. But, you know, we can build this thing and you know, basically celebrate what's best about your site as a retreat. And that's it. So that's what the first house ended up being. We actually ended up building it ourselves. It kept us busy. It also allowed us to kind of meet the budget to suit design and build at the same time. But really only three of us built it off site as a way of also sort of circumventing the lack of contractors that were available sort of two hours away from our office.
Prefab Review
So, a lot of people, I think, know you best for the weeHouse. Can you describe the weeHouse and what makes it a weeHouse.
Alchemy
Yeah, so we didn't set out, the name of our company, our architecture office, is Alchemy, and the weeHouse is sort of a subset of our office, which is named after our prefab design program. And it really came out of this project. And so basically what we looked at is the fact that the site was, as I said, two hours away from our office. We thought, oh, wouldn't it be interesting to just build this thing as a box that we could, you know, put on a truck and we'll build it in our parking lot and we'll put it on that truck and we'll bring it out to the site and we'll put it on its foundation. And that'll save us a whole lot of driving back and forth, et cetera. And our workshop, you know, as I said, we were in a workshop at that point. So it's like we'll have all the tools basically right there. Seemed like a great idea. Dwell magazine, it wasn't really a thing yet. My exposure to something called prefab modular housing is not something that I'd ever even heard of before. And the only example we had is like Jean Prouve from the 20s or 30s or whenever that was, right. 40s, whenever.
Prefab Review
Got it. So you were really doing the first one because it sounds like you guys were more or less manufacturing it yourself. So it sounds like it was very much a practicality thing. But anyway, obviously, like what year, not to date anyone; you or me or anyone listening, what year was that?
Alchemy
That was 2001.
Prefab Review
OK. That's not that bad. All right. So it wasn't pulled by a horse to get to the site. Got it.
Alchemy
No, that's not that old. I'm old, but not that old. You know, it's interesting to think about how much things have changed since 2000. I mean, the birth of the Internet was, you know, sort of mid to late 90s. And this was happening at a time when the economy was exploding. You had all that .com kind of stuff and it was very expensive to get things built. And so really, this was a means to an end. What we did. So you asked earlier that I didn't answer your question yet about what the weeHouse is and what we did for our client, Stephanie, is we just basically looked at what, you know, the biggest load that we could kind of fit on a truck
Prefab Review
Right on a truck, that's how everyone starts with this.
Alchemy
Yep. Exactly. And so we said, all right, if we stay under 14 feet, actually, that means we don't really have to have very stringent permits. So we did that. We had a steel frame so we could bolt a porch on. And what we ended up with is something like if you are familiar with Donald Judd's concrete sculptures that look like shoe boxes with the sides taken off. So basically a square, you know, a rectangular tube in space is really exactly what the original weeHouse looked like. Interestingly enough, I didn't actually find out about Donald Judd sculptures until one of our first clients who saw the original weeHouse said, and lived in Marfa, Texas, where he lived and worked and did his art and said, we want a house just like that here. And when I found out that he'd done whole fields of concrete weeHouse things, I said, hey, this is awesome.
Prefab Review
That's cool. OK, so when we're talking about weeHouse, are we talking about something that's modularly built versus built as a kit. Sounds like you're building at least the first ones modular?
Alchemy
Yeah, we. Anything that you stick, anything you make as a shoe box is you know, referred to as a modular building. Right. You know, now we look at a lot of different ways. Basically, we just use. Well, let me back up. The nice thing about doing it that way is that you can build everything in that box and get it all done and put it on that truck and ship it out and the inside's done completely, the outside, if you design it right, it can almost be done as well too, which is the case of that very small three hundred and fifty square foot house that we did.
Prefab Review
So are you putting appliances on the truck and stuff, too? Are those getting added in by a local builder afterwards?
Alchemy
In that case, we probably included, you know, like an under counter refrigerator or something like that actually in that case, it didn't have electricity. So it was probably just an icebox actually that she put ice in.
Prefab Review
Cool. And then in terms of the evolution today, I assume you're using third party factories or second party factories, whatever you want to call, you know, factories not owned by yourself to actually manufacture. And you're focusing mostly on the design. Right?
Alchemy
Yeah. So just to kind of continue the story in one minute or less. Basically, a lot of people saw that project, which, as I said, was just a means to an end. And we thought, hey, this is, you know, maybe something we should tell people about. So it was a Midwest home no, not a Midwest home, a Met home. And they put in their holiday gift guide and said, here, buy this for your sweetie for Christmas, which we thought was a little weird. But a lot of people saw that and said, hey, we want one of those. We want it just like that, but we want it to be three thousand square feet. And the one we did was 300 square feet. So that's when we started researching factories to build these things. And we found out about, of course, the modular home industry, which had existed for decades. And they were set up to do as, you know, not quite the lowest common denominator housing, but just basically, you know, focused on inexpensive, quick housing solutions. And what we did is, you know, reach out to them as partners to try to just basically include better materials and just more design value, I would say, to build these things.
Prefab Review
Got it then. So today you basically have like a kind of network of a few factories you typically work with?
Alchemy
Yeah. We probably worked with over 20 factories at one point or another over the almost 20 years that we've been working on this process. And, you know, now we really rely mostly on just a handful of factories who we feel kind of meet the quality and capability needs that we're looking for.
Prefab Review
Got it. To push into that, I guess sort of two questions. One, can you, no pressure if you can't. Can you tell us who these factories are? And secondly, what do you look for in, like, how do you assess, the quality of the factory in terms of being a partner?
Alchemy
So, you know, when we started doing this originally in and about 2003, I guess, is when we thought we might do more of a system, a design system, it was almost impossible to get any factories to work with us because they didn't need to, they were so busy. And they didn't understand why. I mean, people didn't go visit the Internet and look through all this stuff and we didn't have prefab groupies calling us up twice a week, you know, wondering about what we're doing next. You know what I mean? So it was hard to get those first factories identified and on-board, but eventually, you know, by explaining and by poorly providing the answers for them in the processes to them to say, hey, here's how this design works. This is how you can execute it in your factory. They started to realize that we actually did know how to put things together. We really thought very intently about that process and the build ability on their hand. And I think that really helped at the beginning. So to your question, it was like, how do we know who is right to work with? You know, now it has to do with what they're good at and how we can leverage their best capabilities to deliver the design with their capabilities where that might be. So, for example, we're not doing all of our houses in a modular way. We're working with Plant Prefab in California, for example, who does the living home. And they also have a suite of architects. And so we're about to roll out something called the lighthouse with them. They built a couple projects for us already. That's sort of like the modular standpoint. And then we're also working with, say, Bensonwood on the opposite coast, who is more of a panelized producer.
Prefab Review
And we've had him on the podcast so far, by the way.
Alchemy
Yeah, exactly. I'd be surprised if you hadn't. Right. So, you know, you work with each of these outfits in different ways according to what their main capabilities are.
Prefab Review
Would you use, again not an expert but fairly, fairly familiar with Bensonwood. And like as you said, they're a kit provider or a panelized provider or whatever you call it. So does that mean you would not use them for sort of a typical house because it's structurally different? Or will you do that in a number of different ways?
Alchemy
Well, you know, basically what we would do is look at, you know, we're essentially doing a very large weeHouse with them that really takes advantage of a panelized process instead of a modular process. So by that, I mean, we also do something called barn houses. And if you think about a barn as being, you know, like barn space is a big, huge space. So which doesn't really want to come in boxes. So we have a very modern design that takes advantage of their system and is very sustainable. So, you know, matching up the ethos of the project as being very sustainable, very low energy with a volumetric delivery system, which really lends itself to panels and then combine that with the really high quality sort of couture materials and details on this project with their expertise and ability to get that through is, you know, makes them a great partner for us there.
Prefab Review
Makes sense. So typically when you're deciding, do you do sort of just standard stick built stuff too still? Or is it mostly kind of panelized or modular.
Alchemy
Yeah. Well, that's a great question. So, yes, we do. We have evolved initially thinking that we were going to you know, people sort of would call us up after this Met Home article, for example. And when we sort of had very static Neanderthal kinds of drawings online showing what the weeHouse system was like. And we thought, hey, we're gonna be able to press a button and these houses are gonna come out. It's like, well, this is great. We're just going to order off a menu just like you do at McDonald's or whatever it is. It's going to be great. Well, you know, we quickly discovered that was impractical for a lot of different reasons. And I think that fast forward to today, we look at every project as a combination of a lot of different kinds of sometimes competing requirements. And what we do as architects is really try to match the delivery system to the tools that we have and the design needs for that particular project. So that means that actually we have weeHouses that look like they should be built as modules that we sometimes build on site because it just, it matches the team, the local team better. And the capabilities and the costs or the opportunities, you know, mean that we went that route instead of doing it as a modular project.
Prefab Review
Right. I imagine that crane or site access may also, how does that play a significant part into your choice on this?
Alchemy
I mean, sometimes it has to do with like does it cost more to design it off site and then put it on a truck? Because, you know, like the labor costs in some rural areas are actually quite, quite low. And so you can employ really awesome craftsmen in the middle of nowhere. If you can find those craftsmen, which you mean you can a lot of times. Right. And it doesn't need to be done in three months and done. You know, you've got like a year to build that or whatever it is. And so it's like, great, let's build it with these guys who are awesome. And they're gonna build it on site. And that's what we're gonna do. Other places when we're delivering to San Francisco, for example, it totally makes sense to build it as a modular because you can drop it in a box. You don't have to tie up, you know, the street for more than an afternoon or whatever it is. And you're basically on your way.
Prefab Review
That makes sense. So can you tell me about maybe one or two of sort of the coolest projects you've done so far? Define cool however you define it, most interesting etc.
Alchemy
Oh, boy. So now you've got me on the spot because, you know. It's funny, we get a lot of, we created a very open ended design system. And so we get a lot of clients who bring their own sort of thoughts and dreams into where these projects are going to go. And so we're continually learning from our clients. You know, we have unbuilt projects for the tops of skyscrapers that were real projects that we didn't end up building, which are still nonetheless actually really interesting. We got to work with the head architect at Apple and do a project for himself and his own land. And, you know, he was actually really inspired by the original weeHouse and maybe the Marfa weeHouse, which were very, you know, just very, very simple, almost platonic, iconic projects. And he basically wanted to do it just sort of that same way, but just really kind of being able to bring up some more building quality and a little bit more geeking out on the architectural-ness of it. And that project actually, as you know, was really a great example of what you can do kind of on a higher end, which is still actually quite modest by most custom architectural standpoints.
Prefab Review
And just a question. So we deal with people all throughout the country. But we do have a lot of customers who come to us, you know, on one coast or the other. What do you do when you're spec-ing out a project? Because I've had three calls about them today. Like sort of average cost in different areas. But what do you think when you're talking about the cost of sort of a custom project in sort of the Midwest versus maybe one of the coasts? How much of a discount are people seeing? Because sort of the occasional question I get is, hey, I just want to build something cool somewhere. This is a second home. What's it gonna cost? Which is incredibly broad and incredibly hard to answer, but just sort of interesting kind of the range of costs on your projects. It sounds like you have a lot of breadth in terms of geography of where you build.
Alchemy
Yeah. I mean, that's a good question that you know, I grew up in the Midwest and I'm driven by a kind of a farmer ethos about this sort of practical Hands-On sensibility and really an admiration for the poetics of the industrial and agrarian landscape, right. And so I am really attracted to sheds and barns and the quality of light you kind of get inside and around those kinds of things. That can be transported to just about anywhere in the country. And the way of achieving that in other parts of the country, I think people understand that kind of way of thinking. And so we try to import what the practical solutions are to these things, to areas where it's not necessary, the lowest common denominator building. And so sort of naturally we go where there's the east and west coasts, primarily California and, you know, Oregon, Washington and up in the northeast where, you know, developing modern, small projects of really high quality is something that you can do a really nice job, but it's more of a case of like most architects are already busy doing like one and a half, two million dollar houses and up. And so finding somebody to do a half a million dollar project is actually quite hard to do because it's pretty much the same amount of work to do a half a million dollar job as it is to do a two million dollar job.
Prefab Review
So last question before we jump into our fire round and what, if anything, are you most excited about or what are your plans to sort of scale or do different things with your company going forward? Like we hear from a lot of people, hey, this ADU trend is something we're going to focus on a lot. Are there in terms of the way the world looks now or was maybe a few years ago? Are you planning to do anything different with your company?
Alchemy
So I'll answer that in sort of two parts. The first is just about the industry in general. I mean, I'm excited that the fact that this is just there's more awareness of the process and the technology and why you would do it. There's an awareness of sort of the state of the need for sustainability and to use our resources on earth wisely. And there's also a bigger awareness that sort of, you know, less is more. So on our own side, e've spent a lot of time really embracing the idea of small dwellings and the quality of living small. The luxury of less. And so the latest project that we're working on, this latest effort that we're rolling out initially with Plant Prefab is the Lighthouse ADU, which is just a small dwelling of about five hundred square feet for both, you know, eight accessory dwelling units and guest houses. But it's flexible enough to be adaptable to a lot of different sites in terms of how you access it, in terms of how you look out, how it takes in, you know, the wind and the sun and all that kind of stuff. And it can be achieved, you know, pretty quickly. But above all, it's, you know, sustainable. It's well-crafted. It's beautiful, and it's actually aspirational rather than just being, you know, a need to be somewhat inexpensive or something.
Prefab Review
Got it. All right. So let's jump into what we call our fire round. These are questions that we get constantly on our site. And yeah, it's great to be able to tap experts like yourself to get answers. So if possible, try to limit yourself to one minute or less per question. But we won't come down on you too hard if you don't. So the first question is, what should a high quality architect cost? If I'm looking into paying for an architect for my project. So, you know, oftentimes we see a percent of project costs. We've seen a number of different models though, so eager to understand that.
Alchemy
I think it depends on what that architect is doing. You know, we plug in at somewhere probably around 15 percent of the project budget, which is actually pretty common. You could go up to 20 percent. You could go down to 10 percent. But I think that you can also get a lot of value out of it. Working with someone on a limited basis in which you're putting the most work in for the sort of highest value of that work on a consultant basis.
Prefab Review
Got it. That makes sense. As part of your standard process and your research, you talked about a feasibility study. What's involved in the feasibility study?
Alchemy
In the last couple of years, what we've realized is the best way to leverage this suite of pre-designed houses is to use not only our built projects but the conceptual background for the weeHouse program, for example, and the Barn House program and the lighthouse as starting points for people to really quickly, you know, discuss with us what things that they're both practically open to and also kind of ideologically or are aesthetically open to. And so what we do is, we go out on these kind of very intense one to two day site visits where we basically are planning the whole project that carries all the way through from that initial site visit.
Prefab Review
Is that a requirement that basically you're always going to the site to do a project?
Alchemy
I really feel like the site is almost more important to the outcome of the project than even the houses. And so we really feel like meeting people, understanding them, having them understand us goes so far through the whole project. You really become kind of married to each other through the course of the project. And so that's the place to design, to build the trust, and to really understand the subtle, maybe unspoken requirements of any project as well. Just understanding the site, I mean, there's so many things you can't appreciate about the site and the opportunities about the surrounding areas that really, you know, have to be done in person, on site.
Prefab Review
And then, can we talk about integrating solar? I mean, it's something that more or less is required to do in California right now. And I'd say probably the majority of projects we're working with have some kind of solar or renewable component. How do you think about that as an architect? Are you seeing the same thing?
Alchemy
We're putting solar on our own house, which was actually a weeHouse that was built for some other people in 2007, and so, you know, we're putting I mean, I feel like that it only makes sense. The there's a couple of different ways of thinking about solar. I mean, once you put on solar, then you're using more electricity. Right. And so you're designing a house to use less energy. We start by saying look, we're going to give you as close to a sort of practical passive house envelope as possible, which means we want it to use as little heating and cooling as possible as a starting point. And then you add on the electrical kind of components for your house. In California, it's almost all electric now. And so having those solar panels to offset that electrical usage is you know, it pairs very closely with the passive design.
Prefab Review
A final question and apologies, we ask this to everyone every episode, and I sort of kind of asked you this question already. So apologies in advance. What are you most excited about for your company or the industry in the near future?
Alchemy
I think actually the lighthouse that we're developing is going to really be as close to the idea of the house as an iPod, If you know what I mean. And you know, as I said, I'd rather an iPhone but the ability to bring, you know, practically deliver design in a package which is kind of closer to actually pressing a button and making that rollout in a whole bunch of different ways, either whether it's modular or site built or panelized or kitted out, I think is going to be something that people are going to appreciate when they see some of the examples of some of the things that we're working on now and we've already completed.
Prefab Review
OK. Thanks so much, Geoffrey, for being on this. It's been terrific to learn about Alchemy and weeHouse and everything you're doing. To learn more, you can visit AlchemyArch.com and you can also always visit us at prefabreview.com for broad coverage of the industry. Thanks again.
Alchemy
Thanks a lot, Michael.